Ellen Pompeo just engaged in what might be one of the frankest discussions of pay equity in Hollywood. And even if it isn’t, the Grey’s Anatomy star’s sit-down with The Hollywood Reporter—which is well worth reading in full—is certainly the most entertaining. The actress offers colorfully candid insights about her road toward becoming, as of late 2017, the highest-paid actress in a primetime drama. The bottom line? Pompeo is “more interested in business” than she is in acting—and her clear-eyed, unsentimental approach has served her well.

Pompeo’s original goal was to be a film actress, she said—so when she first got the script for Grey’s, her reaction was less than ecstatic. “I was like, ‘I’m not going to be stuck on a medical show for five years,’“ she recalled telling her agent. “‘Are you out of your fuckin’ mind?’“ But pragmatism ultimately won out, and prompted the actress to stick to Grey’s for more than a decade; as Pompeo told People in 2016, “My decision to stay on Grey’s was based solely on age. At 33, I was wise enough to know my clock was already ticking in Hollywood.”

Now, as T.H.R. notes, Pompeo’s new deal—signed late last year—has made her dramatic television’s highest-earning actress, with not only a $575,000-per-episode salary, but also “a seven-figure signing bonus and two full backend equity points on the series, estimated to bring in another $6 million to $7 million,” as well as a producing fee and backend on ABC’s upcoming Grey’s spin-off and put pilot commitments for her production company. (Pompeo has a legal drama in contention with her home network, and she recently sold an anthology series to Amazon.)

To Pompeo, a big “defining moment” on her journey toward that mega-deal was her long-serving co-star Patrick Dempsey’s departure from Grey’s. The actress told T.H.R. that she and Dempsey never discussed their separate deals with ABC, and that Dempsey declined to negotiate alongside Pompeo—a tactic used, for example, by the cast of Friends to ensure that every series regular was paid equally.

Instead, ABC “could always use him as leverage against me,” Pompeo said. “‘We don’t need you; we have Patrick.’ . . . There were many times where I reached out about joining together to negotiate, but he was never interested in that. At one point, I asked for $5,000 more than him just on principle, because the show is Grey’s Anatomy and I’m Meredith Grey. They wouldn’t give it to me. And I could have walked away, so why didn’t I? It’s my show; I’m the number one. I’m sure I felt what a lot of these other actresses feel: why should I walk away from a great part because of a guy? You feel conflicted but then you figure, ‘I’m not going to let a guy drive me out of my own house.’“

So ultimately, Pompeo stuck around—and had the thrill of seeing her stock rise even higher when Dempsey made his exit. “So, what does it look like when he leaves the show? First, it looks like a ratings spike, and I had a nice chuckle about that,” she said. Then again, she noted, “the ink wasn’t even dry on his exit papers before they rushed in a new guy . . . I couldn’t believe how fast the studio and the network felt like they had to get a penis in there.” As Pompeo noted with some satisfaction, the “new guy,” a character played by Martin Henderson, didn’t end up working out; Henderson quietly left Grey’s in October.

In large part, Pompeo credits her growing sense of confidence to Grey’s creator and show-runner Shonda Rhimes, who she said “empowered” Pompeo as Rhimes’s own sway within the industry grew. Now, at 48, Pompeo said she’s “finally gotten to the place where I’m O.K. asking for what I deserve, which is something that only comes with age. Because I’m not the most ‘relevant’ actress out there. I know that’s the industry perception because I’ve been this character for 14 years. But the truth is, anybody can be good on a show Season 1 and 2. Can you be good 14 years later? Now, that’s a fuckin’ skill.”

“I’m not necessarily perceived as successful, either, but a 24-year-old actress with a few big movies is, even though she’s probably being paid shit—certainly less than her male co-star and probably with no backend,” Pomoeo added. “And they’re going to pimp her out until she’s 33 or 34 and then she’s out like yesterday’s trash, and then what does she have to take care of herself? These poor girls have no real money, and the studio is making a fortune and parading them like ponies on a red carpet. I mean, Faye Dunaway is driving a fuckin’ Prius today. Now, there’s nothing wrong with a Prius, but my point is, she had no financial power. If we’re going to invoke change, that has to be part of it.”