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Sabbath: God or Mammon? — 26 Comments

  1. Yes it is very difficult to please two things at once because you might please one and hate other , we're leaving in a world of conflicts as you may know very. ?...lets take care as time is approaching

    (16)
  2. This lesson i hope its not going to contradict with our believes mostly adventist. Worshiping God and having money in our churches are two things that go along together perfectly nowardays. Church leaders are nominated due to the amount of money you give to God's work. If you do not have money even Pastors do not pay you visits to your house because you are cursed and you are no body. As we study this week's lesson lets consider how God view this matter. God bless you.

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    • Simba, you make a couple of assertions here and I am not sure whether you are referring to a local church issue or an organisational issue.

      It needs to be understood that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is made up of people like you and me and is not a perfect organisation by any stretch of the imagination. I worked for the church for 43 years and during that time I saw and experienced some of the best Christ-like behaviour from leaders, committees and ordinary church members. At the same time I have also seen some behaviour that makes me hang my head in shame. It is part of our responsibility as members of the community of believers, to speak up when needed. It is easy to make assertions about wrong-doing, but it takes courage and commitment to be part of the solution.

      (26)
      • Maurice, we have just began a new year now. Elections were held last year Nov. In ourDistrist the ctiteria which the local pastor use to select officers is via the treassure book, people now no longer pay offering as required by God, but just for reference in order to be recognised in the church

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        • I hear you Simba, but my question remains: When we see a problem like this, how do we become part of the solution?

          A couple of steps:

          1) Am I the only one that sees the problem? (you need more than one witness)
          2) Who can you talk to?
          3) Pray for the Holy Spirit to lead you. Don't pray for the Holy Spirit to fix them.
          4) What can you do to help show/educate a better way of doing things?

          I reiterate: It is easy to become aggrieved about processes within the church. Working on the solution is challenging and requires persistence and love.

          (9)
          • Maurice, your comment makes good reading. I like the fact that we acknowledge that our church is an imperfect organization owing to the fact that it is made up of and led by humans, some of who are wholly surrendered to the Holy Spirit, some of whom are far from that surrender. What Simba is talking about is a very real life situation in our churches (Atleast in most of the churches where i have been), and unfortunately, it seems to me that it is church policy and not a mere ordinance of local pastors per se; thereby making it a very complicated issue to deal with by an individual like me or Ndumba, or even by the same pastors and elders. Issues of tithes have been taken too serious in my opinion and failure to pay tithe even due to some real life hardships gets considered as the biggest sin one can ever commit in our churches; sad!I recently heard some district where a decree was passed that no body would be allowed to sing in a choir in 2018 if they do not pay tithe; only to come and rescind the decision after noticing that some churches would remain choirless; really? You wonder who leads our leaders into enforcing some policies in a militant way! Sometimes, even a well-intended criticism of such a policy in a polite christian manner attracts a backlash that sometimes gets you the label of a heretic. What do i do in this instance? Instead of being labelled a renegade which i neither am nor intending to be, i honestly would rather, die inside stand aside and let the status quo remain and keep praying for God alone to deal with these issues; after all Christianity is purely an individual and not a corporate affair. And So, when a title like " GOD OR MAMMON?" is brought to us seemingly disparaging people who pursue riches more than Godliness (correctly so) I wish our church should firstly come out clean in terms of monetary issues and some seemingly draconian regulations imposed on the membership. I have so many examples typifying these issues and i feel somebody somewhere even on this forum should be listening when people are complaining. Church should be enjoyed please....

            (6)
            • I am sorry to hear that the issue of tithe paying is treated so legalistically in some churches. I would have thought that your tithe paying is something between you and God, rather than a test of loyalty. Perhaps I am somewhat naive. My experience has been that some church members have tried to hold their church boards to ransom by saying seeing they are the main tithe payers in the church they should have the most say about what goes on in the church. That attitude too is very wrong. A community of believers should be supportive of one another and pecuniary interests should not be a conisderation,

              (9)
    • Simba, unfortunately you are experiencing a cultural reality that does not exist everywhere and should not exist anywhere. I tried to help a young mother on an island I went to for vacation. She caddied for me at a local golf course. I offered to sponsor her boy into the local Adventist school. Even though the $ were guaranteed, the school would not accept the boy because he did not come from the right family. Shameful, but common in that culture. It does not make it right but it was the reality she lived with.

      (8)
      • Hi Maurice, I agree with you. Holding the church board at ransom is an evil as well but tell you what,in my experience, people who do so are usually doing it as a response to by the church's legalistic requirement about tithe issues. They know this is how it ought to be because that is how the church portrays it. If it is church policy that a treasurer is a permanent member of the nomination committee every year for the purpose of ensuring that those who do not pay tithe are not made leaders, then there is a recipe for anarchy and those with money become proud also and want to use it to agrandise their egos. Due to the church's desperation to get tithe from them, it falls for the bait! I have also heard of a church where some tycoon donates land, and builds a church and then it becomes more like procedural that every year, this person has to be made elder or else.........you can fill in the blanks! An other place some one builds a church and every time he enters the church on Sabbath, the congregation should stand up to receive him! These evils go on unchecked in our church due to the fact that the church on its own is not corporately clean in terms of serving mammon and so even some unconverted believers take advantage of the situation and generate sizeable respect based on the size of their pockets or what they have done for the church.

        (1)
        • The same thing is happening in Malawi, Africa. Every sabbath a pastor can not preach without mentioning tithe, its like without tithe there is no salvation. But what we have found out is that the local church that has paid more tithe, its pastor receives more bonuses, so the pastors want to receive more bonus.

          (0)
  3. Today's lesson suggests that Christ's words to the rich man "should put the fear of God in us all" and that making a choice about whether we should serve God or mammon should (at least in part) be motivated by our awareness of what we "owe" God.

    Does anybody else see a problem in suggesting that we need to be motivated (at least to some degree) by "fear" and a sense that we "owe" God?

    (3)
        • Hi Phil,
          my understanding is that when i have a sense of owing all i have to God, i will willingly return whatever he requires of me whenever i notice need to do so without anybody coercing me to do it. It will be an innate intuition in me. Fear on the other hand will drive me to give whatever i am giving mechanically because i perceive failure to do it will attract some penaulties of some sort, so had i been left alone without any coercion whatsoever, i would not do anything. That is what i meant.....
          I will give you a very simple, real life example. When i go and quote Malachi 3: 8-11 to someone; part of that quotation says 'You are under a curse' understandably because you are not paying tithe. If there is somebody who has not been returning tithe but starts returning when he hears that he is under a curse; that is fear. Automatically the fear subsides, this individual stops paying tithe!

          (2)
          • Thanks Pascale - I see your point now. I am glad that "owing" is a positive perception for you. Unfortunately I know of other people for whom it is a negative perception - one that causes the same motivation basis as fear.

            (1)
  4. I am concerned about Simba's comments. We are all important in God's sight. The love of money should not be directing a local church or any part of our work. Please talk to your Pastor and perhaps there is a misunderstanding somewhere.
    May God help us not to worship mammon but to honour God greatly.

    (6)
  5. The Bible is clear that it is the love of money that is "The Root of All Evil," and not money itself, 1 Timothy 6:10. So it seems to me that the author of this lesson places "money," and "the love of money," as being one and the same thing and also as both being on an equal plane and also as being "two evils." It was not the young mans' possessions that were his problem, it was the love he had for those possessions that was his problem. He "loved," his possessions more than he loved his "Fellow Men." He was not willing to sell his possessions so that his fellow men could also benefit from his wealth too.

    (11)
    • ...Jesus replied to the rich young man,... ‘do not murder, do not commit adultry, do not steal, do not lie, honour your parents and Love your neighbour as yourself. It’s interesting Jesus didn’t tell him ‘do not covet.. instead Jesus helped him when He said Love your neighbour, and this was the rich young mans problem.

      (2)
  6. Tithing and offering are supposed to be a percentage of what God has blessed someone. No matter how little one has been blessed, let them calculate the percentage to give to God. The problem is lack of Faith. We fear that when we give God,we will not be sustained.No one is too poor to give

    (10)
    • Even if someone is too poor to give money to God's work yet there is still that person's time and also his or her talents and spiritual gifts that he or she can give to Go's work.

      (4)
    • It seems that the problem is that it should be a personal matter between a person and God. Yes God asks for tithe, but he doesn't appoint "tax collectors" and neither should we. We get too hung up on what is sin and trying to "keep others from sinning". God doesn't ask us to do that. He asks us to be cheerful givers, not to tell someone else what to do.

      (1)
  7. I agree with Pete ' point. The bible is clear it is the love of that's the root of all evils. We need to be careful when we are using our personal interpretation of God's word to justify our views.

    (3)
  8. If we hold for truth it will be evident that Simba is not telling lies
    I've been in the church for over 50 years and have seen people denied positions because they didn't return tithes. That's how the process goes and what's the solution I'm yet to know
    I pray the the holy spirit will guide us in all levels of administration

    (4)
  9. I have gone through at least most of the comments by my fellow believers and I thank you all for your contributions. To some extent, I find some comments to be off the subject at hand "God or Mammon". But I don't want to be judgmental. However I find Pete Villarreal's last comment before my post quite revolutionary a concept. What do I mean by that? Students of economics will basically agree with Pete, that money isn't everything to consider when making valuation of effort of any form. Time factor is also significant. Call it opportunity cost for luck of a better word. Now I'm going off message like a number of contributors here. Lol. I apologize for that. My question to Pete or other members here in this forum is that how do we quantify or value in terms of 10% tithe requirement for qualitative factors such as 'spiritual gift duties' rendered other than money submitted for tithe and yet do not add any iota nor subtract from the Divine Scriptures?

    (0)
    • Festus Mbewe, Let me give you a little bit of an illustration that may help. It is not perfect but it helps me. For all of my life I have worked not for wages, but for a salary. This means that I did not clock on and off when I started and finished work but simply worked as required. Obviously there were certain expectations. For example if something extra had to be done I did it, not expecting to be paid overtime. Naturally the freedom of earning a salary rather than wages comes with responsibility, but there was not the expectation of accounting for hours worked, overtime and so on. The system was mutually beneficial. My employer got more than their money's worth of work out of me, and I got a great deal of satisfaction from doing the job.

      When it comes to stewardship of money and time, if our relationship with God is right there is no need for counting up the 10%; we are going to do more. God does not want 10%; he was us to love him; and our stewardship will reflect that. In our marriage relationship, do we keep tabs on how much each partner does. Is it my turn to cook the meal? Is it your turn to do the laundry? Hopefully we do more than just our share, because it we resort to accounting our marriage is on shaky grounds.

      But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work. 2 Cor 9:6-8

      (2)
  10. Thanks Maurice. I feel humbled to receive a first response from you for my first post in this forum. I feel over the moon. I'm enjoying this blog. So enlightening! Your comment "When it comes to stewardship of money and time, if our relationship with God is right there is no need for counting up the 10%; we are going to do more. God does not want 10%; he was us to love him; and our stewardship will reflect that" is worthy to reflect on. I agree with you to a larger extent. The tithing issue becomes so controversial when misapplied. But the question is when to determine if it is done so. You are very right when you say that tithing should reflect one's love of God. Some clergymen want to make it become some sort of a yoke or disruption instead of it being done out of love rather than fear. The measure of mammon or one's property or wealth can be very difficult to measure though money is most convenient measure of wealth among other means. I really like your illustration on stewardship and other things we normally miss to take into account when coming up with the 10%. So Maurice, when you say God does not need 10% given that all is well with our relationship of love with God. You can give more or less of that 10% unconsciously if the Spirit of Christ lives in you. And counting should not be an issue in this case. Clarify just on this point alone.

    (0)

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