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Samsung and Amazon Introduce New HDR10+ Standard

Marc Wielage

Marc Wielage

Because there just aren't enough HDR standards to go around yet...

Now we're up to at least five:

HDR10 (the sort of "generic" HDR mode)
Dolby Vision
Hybrid Log Gamma (promoted by the BBC and NHK)
Advanced HDR (from Technicolor)
and now HDR10+ (adding dynamic metadata).

Conventional_and_HDR10plus.0.jpg


Full story here:

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...hdr-standard-hdr10-plus-dolby-vision-metadata
 
Yet another opportunity for more BS, as demonstrated by this excellent sentence:
"That’s a change from HDR10, which mastered video content as a single unit with static data — meaning that if a movie was mostly dark with just a few brighter scenes, for example, then those scenes would have previously been oversaturated relative to the rest of the film."
Yes, you read it correctly, according to the writer, when using HDR10, changes in picture brightness causes changes in saturation:confused:
 
Thanks for the news as always Marc :)

At first I groaned when reading the title, but it's not as bad as I thought - especially if it does end up being the case that most HDR10 devices can be updated to support HDR10+. I presume this means that HDR10 will effectively become a retired target and anyone that would have done HDR10 will move to HDR10+. Assuming of course they've made sure that the HDR10+ standard is backwards compatible and can be read by HDR10 devices.

Is there a whitepaper anywhere that we can drill into the details a little more?
 
Brad Allen said:
Is there a whitepaper anywhere that we can drill into the details a little more?
Click to expand...
SMPTE 2094-40 Is the official document. But that's behind the SMPTE pay-wall.

I notice that they say HDR10+ streams are backwards compatible with TVs which only support HDR10.
 
Based on the article I thought it was something Samsung and Amazon jointly came up with.

I'm a SMPTE member, so I'll take a look. Thanks for the doc reference :)

Where were you reading that HDR10+ is backwards compatible? I can't seem to spot it in the article. Great news though as it really does mean it's just an update to an existing format rather than another competitor.
 
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Luckily these standards aren't mutually exclusive. Many sets support HDR10 and Dolby Vision. In fact few only support one standard.

I think the standard portion is a bit irrelevant to consumers going forward, as more and more content is being consumed through stand alone apps. The days of buying gear for one specific function are over and now these sorts of features are being added through firmware updates.

Also think HDR will prove to be much more compelling on mobile devices anyway.
 
The HDR landscape now is not as bad as people think. Definitely not a "format war".

HDR10+ is an extension of HDR10. Content encoded in HDR10+ will also play back on HDR10 devices. The dynamic metadata will just be ignored. Same with Dolby Vision content, which is also available in HDR10 as a mandatory base layer. The different formats are not mutually exclusive like Blu-ray / HD-DVD were. Like digital audio formats, different digital video formats (HDR10, ($3 licensing fee) Dolby Vision, HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, SMPTE 2094-40 based HDR10+, SMPTE 2094-20/30 based Technicolor HDR) can be implemented as different software within a universal HDR TV.
 
Lucas Mason said:
Like digital audio formats, different digital video formats (HDR10, ($3 licensing fee) Dolby Vision, HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, SMPTE 2094-40 based HDR10+, SMPTE 2094-20/30 based Technicolor HDR) can be implemented as different software within a universal HDR TV.
Click to expand...
Unless it gets misinterpreted. Or somebody flips a switch the wrong way. Or the file has the wrong header. Or the cable/sat company strips off the header. Or the set malfunctions.

Other than that, it'll be perfect. o_O
 
What do you think think the pictures will look like if the dynamic metadata gets ignored by the alternative software? If it still looks good then what's the point of the dynamic metadata?
 
I'm just guessing, but I assume static meta-data will look good (as good as HDR10 today), but dynamic meta-data will look better as it can adjust on scene by scene, shot by shot or even frame by frame basis.
 
This is an interesting development.

I am not surprised this is happening. This would be pushed to remove the need for the DolbyVision licensing costs.
One interesting change in standards in recent years is, like the internet sees a problem and simply routes around it. This also now seems true for proprietary standard in the new world of (Upgrade devices over the internet at any time, circumventing any proprietary implementations as soon as an open one exists)

I saw this coming years ago and was confused with Dolby still chasing the 'defacto proprietary standard path', It did make them buckets of money in the "Baked into DVD player/static devices" days.

Dolby does a lot of good R&D and has really lead the way with HDR and Atmos. But the change in how the world works and the predisposition to go around any licensed technology will likely not work out as well as previous defacto proprietary standards did for them.

Even so, they do seem to be putting eggs in other baskets. Ie, DolbyVision Cinema, basically a competitor to IMAX. A very viable company by themselves. Or just making DCI equipment, SMS/IMS, Immersive audio processors.
I expect them to still do well, just not as well as historical.

Does anyone know if HDR10+ supports 12bit distribution?
Apart from the per scene meta-data, the only other issue one could flag is that 10bit on PQ does theoretically come above the perceivable different threshold (Bartons curve) Tho I have not really seen any critical comments that people have been able to see this. If 12 bit is supported, then I see no reason for DolbyVision, but otherwise if not 12bit, Dolby will still have that over HDR10-whatever..
 
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